The Survivorship Project
The Survivorship Project is a podcast dedicated to sharing inspiring stories of cancer survivors and thrivers who have defied the odds, expert insights from leading health professionals and holistic healers, and practical tools for thriving beyond a diagnosis. This show is a beacon of hope, resilience, and empowerment for anyone navigating the survivorship journey—whether in recovery, treatment, or supporting a loved one.
The Survivorship Project
Living with Inoperable Pancreatic Cancer: Martijn Timmermans on Hope, Healing & Histotripsy
When faced with a stage 3 pancreatic cancer diagnosis at age 53, Martin Timmermans refused to accept the grim statistics often associated with this disease. His powerful conversation reveals how seemingly minor chest discomfort led to a life-altering diagnosis that forced him to reconsider everything about his existence as a father of three.
Martin takes us through his eleven rounds of chemotherapy—a process he likens to preparing for repeated "boxing matches" with diminishing strength each time. When conventional medicine reached its limits and surgery was deemed too risky due to the tumour's proximity to critical blood vessels, Martin channelled his energy into researching alternatives rather than surrendering to despair.
His journey led to discovering an innovative ultrasound therapy called histotripsy being trialed in Barcelona—a noninvasive approach offering new hope when standard treatments couldn't. The €62,000 financial hurdle for this experimental treatment revealed the extraordinary power of community support, with friends, colleagues in the events industry, and even children donating their savings through a crowdfunding campaign.
What truly distinguishes Martin's story is his philosophical approach to cancer. Rather than viewing his condition as something to "fight against," he adopted a perspective of acceptance without resignation. Drawing wisdom from Buddhist principles of impermanence and dedicated meditation practice, Martin found that facing mortality clarified his priorities unexpectedly: "I'd rather have half a year of super intense time with family than 10 years going on as before."
This episode offers crucial wisdom for anyone facing serious illness: question medical orthodoxy when appropriate, research diligently using modern tools like AI, listen to your body, and find a balance between head and heart when making decisions. Above all, Martin demonstrates that human connection and mindful presence can transform the journey from mere survival to profound living, even in life's darkest moments.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
• Histotripsy by HistoSonics
• NotebookLM
• Vipassana Insight Meditation
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If you want to be a guest on the show, email Carsten directly at ckpleiser@gmail.com
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Hi everybody. This is Carsten and you're listening to the Survivorship Project podcast, the show that brings hope, inspiration and the right tools and mindset to your cancer journey. I've created a space to share stories from survivors, thrivers and those who have defied the odds to give you hope and help you heal. In this episode, I'm meeting with Martin Timmermans, who has been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer stage 3 in June of 2024. Martin shares his early symptoms that led to his diagnosis, the emotional impact and the various treatment protocols that he has been following. Martin also discusses his initial fears, how he managed lifestyle changes and the new ultrasound therapy he found promising in Barcelona, in Spain. I hope you enjoyed this episode just like I did, and without further ado, let's go. Martin, thanks so much for being here. Let's start from the beginning what led to your diagnosis and what led you to get checked?
Martijn Timmermans:More or less like two months before I was diagnosed I felt a little bit of I wouldn't really say pain, but like a very uncomfortable feeling around my chest, on the left side of my chest. In the beginning I thought, yeah, it's probably like a muscle ache or something like that, but I actually kept going and after two weeks I really couldn't really sleep or I kept waking up every hour. I thought it's time to go to the doctors and then, yeah, from there I had an echo and then when they did the echo they noticed something weird in my pancreas and I already had a feeling this is no good. To be sure, they wanted to do a CT scan and then when they did the CT scan they found out that it was a tumor in my pancreas. Took about two months. When I was diagnosed in June last year.
Carsten Pleiser:And yeah, I'm sorry to hear that, but obviously the first two months of the diagnosis probably the most scariest, at least for me when I was diagnosed it was the scariest few days after first getting this shock diagnosis out of nowhere. And I know you from the events industry. You'd have been a healthy, sporty, athletic guy and then having this at this young age, it's really shocking.
Martijn Timmermans:How did you cope with that? In the first few days I was prepared, say, for the words. When I, you know, when I saw the face of the, the specialty echo, and so that led me up to believe that there might be something really wrong. I at that time I didn't know anything at all about pancreatic tumor cancer, nothing at all. I didn't know it was so severe or anything like that. Yeah, as soon as it was like confirmed, I could say it's a kind of shock. I'm a father of three children, so I don't know how I would have reacted if I would be single. No kids. But immediately when you for me at least, when I was confronted with this, it was a thought about my children. And then, yeah, the outlook for pancreatic cancer is so bad, I immediately started thinking about the future, or the near future, and then my children and potentially not seeing them in a few years.
Carsten Pleiser:Yeah, it was shocking, but at the same time you have to keep breathing and you have to go on and it takes a few weeks usually like at least in my case, probably the same for you from the diagnosis until they actually give you like a staging, like stage three or four or two or one I think. In your you were diagnosed with stage three, which meant base localized in the pancreas. It hasn't spread to any distant organs but there were some lymph node involvements around the pancreas.
Martijn Timmermans:Yeah, that's right. But they couldn't conclude if that would evolve or anything like it was no major thing. So I was like, looking back back, I think I was quite early diagnosed with with the tumor, no metastasis, nothing like that. But the challenge was that my tumor in pancreas the tumor is either at in the top of the pancreas, in the bottom or in the middle and that's the body part. So that's where my tumor is situated. But it's also tied to like quite critical blood vessels. So it was like, yeah, it was going to be a challenge, because the best way of the knowledge what they have is that they want to operate and take out the tumor. Basically that's the best scenario for prolongation of life. So that was going to be like a challenge. From the beginning I was told, yeah, stage three and then tumor in the body part.
Carsten Pleiser:Wow. And then the surgery itself is a horrible surgery. I think they call it the Whipple procedure or something. It's a long, really long surgery. So that was an option for you which might be a blessing in disguise. Now you've potentially found alternative solutions, which is great, but obviously it gives you a bit of disappointment, right when you hear that there's not much they can do surgically.
Martijn Timmermans:But what happens is, when I had the diagnosis, I was like, yeah, what you were saying as well. Actually they called me, the hospital called me a few days later and then we come into like a roller coaster of hospitalization so to say they got their protocols ready. That was actually for me very stressful time in a way. I know expectation would at least hope that, oh, we do something with my tumor in order to be operated. If you can be operated, it's absolutely not like an easy operation the clinical marathon.
Carsten Pleiser:The amount of tests you go through, scans you go through, conversations you have.
Martijn Timmermans:It's just crazy and overwhelming at the beginning I really had a feeling my whole life from that moment on was everything was about around the hospital. All the at least once a week go to the hospital not to have chemo, but have blood tests or get some medication or speak to another different specialist the feeling that you're more at the hospital than that you're at home.
Carsten Pleiser:What happened post-treatment and then the next plans for the upcoming treatment in Barcelona. Do you have any like takeaways or tips? What did you do? What would you recommend? Anyone going through this for the first time Any nuggets of wisdom here from you that you might look back on?
Martijn Timmermans:I think it depends a little bit in what kind of diagnosis you have. In my case, if you're confronted with pancreatic cancer, I would say don't look at statistics. You can have a quick look, but don't believe that these statistics is all you have. That would be definitely one tip About side effects. I experienced loss of appetite, so in this case I would say, watch food channels. And another one I also experienced what's called neuropathy. So that means I had to be really careful in touching things that were really cold. But even like on my bike, if I would touch the bike, that would already be too cold because the iron of the bike, the metal, when it comes to neuropathy, I would wear all the time with gloves because you have to be very careful with that. It comes to my hand and I also experienced it in my leg and so I was limping at one point. But then just go through it, keep walking. Definitely. And when it also comes to what you diagnose and you come into this like this rat race watch your diagnosis and you come into this like this red race, so to say, in the hospital be critical and don't let yourself be overruled. So if you need time, tell the doctors hold on. I need time to make a decision about this right, because it's your life, it's your body and everything. So they want to do it as soon as possible, but a day or two or even a week, my case wouldn't have mattered.
Martijn Timmermans:I had 11 chemo in the end and my last was was in December 2024. And I started what, so to say, 100% full force blasting it, but that was like so heavy I needed to really recover from that. I needed some time, and then we went down to 75% and then we went down to 50. And 50 was best manageable for me, but then later on in the end we went up again. At the time I was diagnosed I was 53. And so I was considered young, apparently, to be diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. So the doctor also thought let's give him the full blast. I felt every time like you're, like when you have the chemo you're completely beaten up, and then two weeks time you have to, I have to do the boxing match again, and every time I, like you, can prepare less.
Martijn Timmermans:So after eight chemos they do another CT scan to see if it's operable, can be operated. And then what happened was in my situation, the doctor, the surgeon at the university hospital. He wasn't sure, so he wanted a second opinion and so all the 10 other academic hospitals. The surgeons looked at it and they came to the conclusion oh, we find it too risky to operate, so continue with the chemo. And then, hopefully, after 12 chemos and it had a result.
Martijn Timmermans:So I continued with the chemo even though I was to my feeling I was done with it. We went back up to 75 or something that tried to maximize the impact. And then I did that another three times. So I, but at the 11th chemo I felt like it's not doing its work anymore. I just I just somehow felt it. And then I had a another CT scan. So that was the last after the 11th, and then it was confirmed that it wasn't operable.
Martijn Timmermans:She literally said you, you can never be operated anymore. And what I can offer you still is two things. And what I can offer you still is two things Keep continuing with the chemo over time to either reduce some pain or to try at least to break or put a break on the growth if possible. And the second one, in which I was always interested as well, was to look at like clinical trials, if they were available. I was prepared for her to say that she couldn't treat me anymore, because it's pretty harsh if somebody tells you you can never be operated, so basically saying, basically we can't do anything, let's see how long you can still live and make the best of it. Go for it. It feels very unreal, but I never had any expectations. I had hope but I never expected anything.
Carsten Pleiser:I think, martin, this is a really good attitude. I found the same thing Like if you ever have false expectations, it can really bite you back. But if you have hope, which is great, but not necessarily expecting anything in return or anything from these treatments, I think it has a really good. It's a really good mindset and a really good attitude for anyone going through the.
Martijn Timmermans:Yes, exactly, and like everything that you don't have influence on, you can't just radically.
Carsten Pleiser:but radically let it go and then tell me then obviously you've done some research on trials, you have done some research on possible therapies and you've found this therapy, which was available only in Barcelona, in Spain, and something that wasn't funded by the Dutch healthcare system. Can you tell us about this a bit more in detail? What was the therapy?
Martijn Timmermans:over time, of course, we do start looking at what helps with pancreatic cancer, on all areas, right from lifestyle to to diets, anything, vitamins. There's a lot of other suggestions or examples to be found on the internet and I have to say I also receive it's funny your inner circle friends. They try to help you and then in their algorithm, suddenly the algorithm is full of anything about cancer treatments. So one of my friends, he sent me a link to ultrasound therapy right Basal frequency and as soon as I heard that I couldn't be treated anymore, I started looking up. Yeah, for clinical trials, pancreatic cancer, but also ultrasound as a therapy. And yeah, for people who don't know it, ultrasound has been there for a long time and it's something that I believe they already treat kidney stones with or other problems, but they didn't do anything on pancreatic tumors. But in this case I found that there was a clinical trial happening at that moment as well in Barcelona, spain. I did a bit more research, of course, on the therapy itself and that sounded really promising, also knowing that it's ultrasound like using frequency waves to target the tumor, and in this case it's also with the method they use is called histotripsy and which, basically, is the machine and what I found is that last year they concluded research in which they treated the liver tumor and the results were really amazing. They were so good that they could go on a kind of fast track for the FDA, because it's an American invention. They started actually already 20 years back on developing it, so that gave me like quite good hope. It looked pretty promising as well because it's non-invasive there's no surgery, there's no needles, there's no cutting, nothing like that and, yeah, minimal side effects as well on tissue laying around it, with my hope that I could still be potentially operated In my case. This sounded like a real great opportunity and yeah. So I contacted them and they came back to me very quick and, by sharing the scans and blood tests, they looked at it and they said you seem to fit in perfectly as one of the candidates, because they will only treat 30 candidates in each trial and I'm like number 16. So they've already treated 15 other people and so far, yeah, the results are good, which means that they were able to treat the tumor.
Martijn Timmermans:Then I found out that I thought it's the European Union right and this treatment, like in an analytical treatment, you wouldn't pay for either. So I thought this is the same story. It's free, which it isn't and I was like, yeah, that was a challenge. Yeah, I have to be in Barcelona about five or six times over a period of the coming six months. I had to calculate travel up and down and all these kinds of things. So we calculated in the end we needed 62,000 euros. Obviously, if I bought a house and I could remortgage it or anything like that would do it, I couldn't get a bank loan because I just was out of my job. Basically, I didn't get that funds so I think one of your family members had the great idea yes, so that's minutes.
Martijn Timmermans:She's the mother of our children and she said then we should start a fundraiser or crowdfunding. And I said, oh, okay. And then, because we understand, up until that time only very few people knew. So I had an inner circle of friends. That's actually another tip if you have, especially if you're dealing with kids and all that, try to find like a close circle with people in your area that can help you out.
Martijn Timmermans:At least I was very fortunate in Amsterdam. I had quite a group of friends who had bring me up and down so that at least for the mother she could also. She didn't. It was not all down to her, because obviously you know as well as the children you want to have them to continue their life as best as possible. She said then we just started crowdfunding. And then, yeah, you have to, it has to be out in the open. She said so that was for me All right, I had to think. On one hand, I had to think about it, but at the same time I didn't the asking for help thing was something getting over my ego that was something.
Martijn Timmermans:Yeah, I would. Yeah scary, I find difficult, yeah, it's more scary, yeah.
Carsten Pleiser:And then, I think, within a couple of days of launching the entire events industry stood behind you, promoting it, helping out, giving donations yeah and then your daughter shared it with some friends. Amazing, amazing human kindness has shown.
Martijn Timmermans:Yes, exactly right, a few days before the fundraiser started, because it started on a Friday, which was pretty clever thing of Lilith to do, because that's, let me say, the Facebook if you talk about in terms of social media. Social media can be a blessing and a curse In this situation. It was really a blessing without it would have never happened. But so, starting on facebook to launch it on this friday and then after the weekend, we already had somewhere like 30 percent of the goal. I'm so overwhelmed and, yeah, you're right, with my teenage kisses, they were posting it on on their instagrams and all that. And then, from then on, it's like heartwarming. I didn't have any expectation. We had to feel like so many people are supporting you. And then you see like kids of my youngest Aiden, like their school buddies, putting their savings down, and then, like you see, like any donation right.
Martijn Timmermans:And then yeah, and then I actually, on the Monday, I thought now it's time for the real ego blaster for me at LinkedIn. I was also a bit hesitant. Linkedin is a bit, on one hand, business and, on the other hand, products and career and all that, and I had a little doubt about asking for help. And then I kickstarted on LinkedIn and that was like also another like a crazy rollercoaster of people sharing it and so many really beautiful messages. I was on a kind of on a high for many days. I also made a joke like this love I get, they should instantaneously cure me.
Carsten Pleiser:Sometimes the universe brings people together. I strongly believe in that, and having all these people rooting for you must be such an incredible feeling and I think, a lot of men especially being faced with a challenge like cancer. They don't really open up so much.
Martijn Timmermans:The interesting thing is I would actually once you were just saying that, I saw trust come from me. The word trust like trust on humanity. If I look at the kindness of people through all layers, through all cultures, through all age groups, I realized that, looking back, if you just trust the people and give it a try and I'm really happy, I did as well, A big burden fell off me as well because of that, and now it's out in the open.
Carsten Pleiser:It's often the misconceptions about the disease, the cancer itself, where people probably think oh my God, martin, is he lying in a bed, not moving what I?
Martijn Timmermans:didn't realize is, yeah, often when people hear the word cancer or anything like that. So, for example, when I spoke to my youngest son, Aiden, he was 11. So when I had a conversation with him and in this case also Lilith his mother was there. So we're sitting here with the two of us and Aidan, and so I said I didn't say to him that he has cancer. I told him Daddy has a tumor, because cancer is such a word that it's like really heavy, and then he was thinking and then he said, okay, is it cancer? I said yeah, it's a cancer. And then he said the immediate question was are you going to die?
Martijn Timmermans:And I think a lot of people assume cancer with immediate death and in the case of pancreatic again, don't look at statistics it's not a good outlook. Now, with the fundraiser, what I also didn't realize, like people thought, because the fundraiser was, of course, a piece of text and a couple of photos there, and the people were thinking, yeah, he's laying on his bed all the time. He's sick as crazy. So then I started making this like this first video as well, like they could hear me and see me like this, for. And then I think that also answered a lot of those questions because, yeah, I can't look into somebody's head, but people think all kinds of things a bit.
Carsten Pleiser:Henry Suryawirawan. Yeah, cancer has so many different faces and there's not only everyone. There's lots of stories of hope and resilience and survivorship out there, and that's exactly the reason we're doing the show here is to show these, these examples of people.
Martijn Timmermans:So when I had my conversation with my daughter and she's like more of an academic her first question was and she's 18 at the time she was like what does the data tell you? It's no point looking at the data because there's so little data and so there's so many different forms. And you're absolutely right, you have to keep hope. Yeah, for sure. And also there are alternatives. I don't know how it is in the UK, but when I was diagnosed, the only thing they were focusing on was the therapy, the chemo. Like that I would not lose any more weight. And then, in order for me not to lose any more weight, they would suggest what they like these protein drinks. But these special protein drinks are full of sugar, exactly. So they would never tell me that sugar is bad, that tumors love sugar, crave for it, and it makes them grow happily.
Martijn Timmermans:So these kinds of things you have to be critical. Do your own research. Thanks to AI, you can do so much by yourself. I would suggest diet is important. Lifestyle, of course you don't have to do active sport, but at least work on your cardio. Be at least on the move right though, because that's super important my, your mindset, your mindfulness. There's all other ways and in my situation my glass is in general half full. I don't fear to die or death. It happens to all of us. The only thing I think is not yet my time.
Carsten Pleiser:I would like to stay on the planet for a bit longer what I learned as well is that I've done some meditation, mindfulness courses and I've been really diving into Buddhism a lot, and there's one reality we're all gonna grow old, we're all gonna fall ill and we're all gonna die. So if you accept that reality for everyone, for every single human being, for every animal, for every plant, then things become half as dark as they are.
Martijn Timmermans:I can relate to that. If it comes to Buddhism, like a lot of people think it's a religion, it's a science it's actually very straightforward in a way that it super helps me go through the day. Because there's another important thing, I think, when it comes down to that belief or way of life, is that the idea of impermanence right, that nothing remains, even the like. For example, whatever pain, even if you're chronically ill or something, that doesn't mean that pain or it's always the same right, it's always stretched, it will go up and down, but I basically learned a mechanism to not stretch about it, because I know it's going away again. But at the same time, that's true also for very positive things. If you then crave for something like or expect something great to happen because you experienced it before, or something like that, yeah, know that that goes away as well. Two sides of the coin.
Carsten Pleiser:You mentioned, obviously do your research, and you actually gave me that tool recommendation that I think you used heavily in your research, which is Google's Notebook LM which is amazing.
Carsten Pleiser:I tired it out last week for the first time. I fed the tool some clinical studies about berberine as a potential anti-cancer supplement and you basically what you do is you feed those PDFs or links or documents to Google Notebook LM and I can share the links with you in the show notes. Of course you feed it and then you can basically interact with that document like a human being. You can ask questions about it, you can summarize it, you can get the benefits, the downsides of it, you can do all kinds of things.
Martijn Timmermans:I can really honestly say if AI, if this would happen to me a few years earlier, I could never do all this research. It would save me months of time, Lots of stress. This Google LM is perfect. I had all the clinical data on the clinical trials. I could put them all in one folder and ask questions from a comparison to whatever. So that would definitely be one tip of mine Be critical, do your own research, don't take their words for it. And that accounts for everything like from, also on your diet, for example, on like alternative treatments.
Martijn Timmermans:I think I shared it with you like my kind of protocol, what I consider to that that could work for me to go through the day with all vitamins or alternative medicines, plant-based, all these kind of things, and I know it takes time, but it's definitely worth it, especially with AI. It saves you a lot of time as well, and I would also. I think, if I think about tips, what I realized very much is you go into this in the beginning and the diagnosis. You go into this and this shock and everything. You go into this mode very much in your head, right, oh, organize your stuff and all that, but try to find balance again with your body right, because my head plays tricks with me as well and I really need it. And that's where, like vipassana or meditation, helps trying to get back, because when you have to make decisions, important decisions for me, it is a balance.
Martijn Timmermans:My body will tell me, in the end, what I want exactly and what I need, yeah and and, but just be mindful, because chemo can take you all out, exactly, completely out of that space, and be aware of that I would say. And also, don't make hasty decisions, make decisions that you feel comfortable with, and if it takes longer, then it just takes longer.
Carsten Pleiser:Yeah, listen to your own body is really good advice, really good advice. I spent the first few weeks in the forest, just being in the forest and nature, and sometimes I would find myself sitting on under a tree really and just sitting there breathing and meditating and it really helped me, like I was a complete new person when I came back home and just listen to your body, listen what your body needs and if he doesn't want to be inside, then go outside, enjoy the sun.
Martijn Timmermans:people say, live in the now, in the moment, be saying that for years, and it's not that easy. You really have to take time for that. I was always interested in meditation, for example, and I knew it could help me, but I was always looking for a method or a way that would help me. Of course, I have all these apps and all that, but that just didn't work for me.
Carsten Pleiser:It didn't cut it until I did this 10-day silent retreat. That worked, for me at least. The moment you get diagnosed, your life changes completely, but it makes you realize what's really important in life and all of a sudden you have a new life chapter coming up which is yeah, which is something that you can't experience unless you go through this trauma, and for me, I see lots of good things coming out of this, even though it's probably the darkest time of my life. I I'm not sure if you see the same, but there's also lots of great connections with your kids or with your family. Do you see the same or do you feel the same Absolutely?
Martijn Timmermans:When I was confronted with it and I think you can't you can think about what would I do or something like that, but you don't know what you would do until it happens to you, right, and I've got like really good friends, old friends, so to say. I've known for like 40, 50 years. And then he would tell me, oh, I've got so much respect for how you deal with it and how you're like positive about it, and then I would think I know you, you would do the same. It's going back to the Buddhism. Yeah, okay, you have this diagnosed and at the same time, you have to go on.
Martijn Timmermans:At the same time, you are, yeah, in my situation, looking more at, okay, so what's important in life? A lot of things you won't do anymore, maybe you did before, and a lot of things you start doing, and I always said I want more, like more quality of life. I've been really busy before that working, working and like so much working and now it's trying to find more, much more balance. Enjoy more, be more, try to be more in the moment, enjoy the people around. Much more balance. Enjoy more, be more, try to be more in the moment, enjoy the people around you. More intense. I'd rather have half a year of super intense with the family, with the children, than and then, if that will be my end, or 10 years of going on how it was going on before that, I'm grateful for what I've already had in my life I never said oh, I'm fighting this because what's there to fight?
Carsten Pleiser:It's just a natural thing that happens in my body. I can't control it, I'm just accepting it. Not accepting it in a way that, oh, I don't care about it, but in a way that it's just part of me. So why would I fight against it?
Martijn Timmermans:Yeah, I agree, I did experience a moment. I guess I was annoyed by it, angry go. Annoyed by it, angry, go through. All the emotions, Of course. And but now, knowing that, like the pancreatic tumor apparently is a very clever tumor, they say it adapts really quickly to treatment, to kind of all different kinds of ways and somehow like, like, plays tricks with you. So I look at it more like as a game. I try to find ways in which I can like, trick it or at least use often the word shock it.
Carsten Pleiser:And by the time you've done this, you have, might be other options again, because the science and the research is going so far every single day. Yes, so, oh, yeah. So the goal is really to extend the life and see what's out there next.
Martijn Timmermans:That's it. Yeah, that's the whole thing. Yeah, that's the whole thing. A year ago, when I was almost a year ago, when I was then diagnosed, like at that time they would basically say, yeah, like life expectancy if you can't be operated, it's one and a half year, eight years, these kind of things.
Carsten Pleiser:So I'm more actually, in a way I can already be grateful that I'm love your attitude and I think this is something that people should just take away from. This is having the right attitude towards the challenge of your life. Cancer is something that a lot of people can learn from. I think Martin's story is really a story of resilience, positivity, good attitude, resourcefulness and, of course, power of humans, of community. I wish you all the best in Barcelona. We stay in touch via WhatsApp and text message. You're an amazing man and the treatment, hopefully, will be really good for you, and keep on doing what you're doing. Thanks for inviting me for the podcast. We can do this anytime, my friend. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please subscribe and leave a rating and review. It would mean the world to me To stay up to date with the Survivorship Project and get all the behind-the-scenes content. You can follow us on Instagram at the Survivorship Project and I'm sending you lots of love Until next time.
